Spoilers below.
When Michelle Buteau turned 30, she took a self-described 'Eat, Pray, Love trip' to South Africa. At the time, the comedian had been pulling double duty, working a desk job as an editor at NBC while picking up whatever standup shows she could fit into her schedule. It was exhausting, but she felt fulfilled. On her trip, however, she had an aha moment. 'I was like, "We’re all very small. But if we decide to do something that helps us, then we can help other people,"' she told ELLE US over a Zoom call from Australia, where she was filming the new comedy Spa Weekend. 'So I came back and quit my job. Then I just started flying in standup. My brain was on a different level because I was all-in. I was just like, "This is what I do now."'
Over a decade and a half later, Buteau returned to that moment for a moving storyline in the second season of her hilarious Netflix sitcom Survival of the Thickest. When Mavis, the plus-size fashion stylist she plays with a mix of lighthearted sass and earnestness, is screwed over by a designer falsely advertising his clothes as plus-sized, she decides to take matters into her own hands, updating one of his dresses in both proportion and style. The move takes her beyond the parameters of a stylist and into the role of designer. Mavis never considered herself capable of actually making clothes, but judging by the rapturous response her new piece gets, it’s clear that she had been underestimating her talents. 'That moment is a love letter to myself,' Buteau said. 'I don’t want to sit in regret and think, "I didn’t do this because I was afraid."'
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Buteau certainly doesn’t regret her career pivot. In the past few years alone, the comedian has played reality TV host for shows like Barbecue Showdown and The Circle, starred in TV series like First Wives Club and Bless the Harts, and toplined critically-acclaimed films like last year’s Babes. Last year, she even made history as the first woman to perform a standup comedy special at Radio City Music Hall. (The special, A Buteau-ful Mind, is streaming on Netflix.)
And with Survival of the Thickest season two, Buteau is doing even more of what she loves, writing episodes that speak to our current world — whether that’s Black male mental health, Black women navigating corporate America, or trans empowerment. As she said, “[The show] is about me and my friends figuring it out, no matter what age we’re at. I’m always thinking, "How do we make it mindfully messy? How do we move with intention but know that mistakes will happen, and that we’re never losing because we’re always learning?"'
This show has always been very sex-positive, but this season takes it to a new level when Mavis decides to go on a sex spree after being dumped by her Italian boyfriend Luca (Marouane Zotti). She makes it clear she’s only looking for casual flings, and the show acknowledges how people don’t accept that with women. It reminded me of some of your standup routines, when you’ve described yourself as a 'hoe for life.' How do you think your work is reorientating the way society thinks about female sexuality?
You made hoe-dom sound so smart! But I think it’s about ownership. It’s about not apologising for liking sex. It’s realising that you have a 'different body' and that you’re never going to meet these unrealistic patriarchal standards, and that’s okay because you are beautiful no matter what. And if you like sex, go ahead and like it! It’s really about you. It’s not about some 'male gaze' or whatever that shit is. So while my character would love to be in love, and would love a steady relationship, and does want a child, there’s also a part of me, Michelle, who at one point was like, 'I like sex but I don’t want a relationship. How does that work?' I don’t think enough people talk about it — or they’re scared of it — so they’re like, 'Sex means I’m in a relationship.' But, no, sex means you’re just taking care of your mental health! Sex is good for you! It’s important to show people they can own their sexuality and not feel guilty about it. Because that’s one part of this administration: They want to make you feel guilty for liking things that are normal.
I love the storylines you came up with for other characters this season. I was particularly drawn to Khalil’s (Tone Bell) therapy journey, because I know all too well how reluctant some Black men can be to address their mental health. What drew you to that topic?
I feel like a lot of my male friends who aren’t comedians don’t always know how to express themselves, so they’ll be going through stuff and don’t know how to get out of it. They think it’s not a big deal and that it’ll just go away. But it’s like, no, man, there’s some deep-rooted s*** in there. Every single generation in our family has had to go through something and probably hasn’t worked on it, so it’s sort of just handed down — that anxiety, that dread, we hold onto it and don’t even know we’re holding space for it. Khalil is using art to work through it. But what happens when you’re blocked? And why are you blocked?
I remember talking about Chris Rock and Will Smith in the [writers’] room. I was like, 'When these two very successful men have that kind of exchange on an international platform, [the wider public] doesn’t see two very successful men that have had to hold the weight of the world and probably code-switch and do all of these things. They just see two Black men.' So I just started thinking about, Oh shit, what is that therapy session like? That’s how we landed on therapy, because we’ve just got to talk about our feelings.
I also enjoyed seeing Marley (Tasha Smith) in her work environment. We don’t often see Black women (let alone queer ones) navigating the corporate world, especially when they aren’t coy about their power. Marley is quite tough, with a no-nonsense attitude.
Marley is based on one of my best friends, who, at one point, 25 years ago, was the richest person I ever knew. The fact that everyone working for her was older than her and white was just amazing to see. It was the education that I could never have gotten in college, just to watch a Black woman move through corporate America. But I remember hanging with her and asking, 'Why are you always so uptight? Why are you always in a bad mood?' And she was like, 'That’s just my personality.' It wasn’t until years later, when she started to step away from the corporate world, that she said, 'God, I’ve had to be this way because I always had to put on that armour [to get the job done].' But she didn’t want to do that anymore. So Marley was kind of inspired by that: Who do we have to be and what do we have to do in order to make it in a different space?
My favourite episode of the season is definitely Peppermint’s wedding. It felt so good to see such a beautiful trans love story come to life. Knowing that this season was written and filmed last year, when we were in a much different political climate, how does it feel to be pushing out such an empowering narrative now, as the Trump administration does seemingly everything in their power to disenfranchise the trans community?
Oh god, you’re going to make me cry! It takes so much [for a trans person] to dig so deep and be like, 'Is what I’m feeling real? Do I want to make my life harder? How do I do this? Will the people that raised me still love me?' And it’s so fucked up [to attack that]. I’ll go to a protest and I’ll definitely donate, but I feel very helpless. The things I can control, though, are my voice and my art. So when I get the opportunity [to speak out], I’m going to say some shit—and I’m going to be loud about it.
This administration, they are criminals. They believe people should have guns. So who are they to tell people they cannot exist or love each other? Everyone deserves the right to exist. So when we were filming the wedding, I was like, 'Oww! We have the House of Balenciaga!' But when we were editing, I was like, 'Oh! This is actually our act of resistance, just being joyful.'
You’ve been doing standup for over two decades now. From your perspective, how do you think the wider comedy landscape has changed, for better or for worse?
Well, comedy, like any other industry, is just inundated with people who have 'personalities' and not necessarily 'comedy chops' because of social media now. But what I’m realising is that there is a place and lane for the TikTokers and YouTubers, too, because at the end of the day, it’s just a new type of performing. So there’s that.
But if you can do it, I think comedy has gotten better. A lot of people will say, 'We can’t say this anymore. We can’t say that.' But the things they are complaining about us not being able to say? We should’ve never been saying that shit in the first place. Now, it’s about: Can you do the work? Can you make it funny? Can you make it thought-provoking? Can you punch up? Can you do [your job] and not be a bully? Just do the work!
That actually reminds me of one of my favourite moments from your most recent special, A Buteau-ful Mind. You tell a joke about a friend, and then you say, 'I’ve just told you guys a true story about my beautiful Black lesbian friend, and we all laughed… We can tell these jokes and not disparage a whole community.' I think that, as a philosophy, that speaks to your entire sense of humour. Even in SOTT, you aren’t afraid to go there. But even at your edgiest, it all still feels respectful. How do you find that perfect line?
I don’t fully know. I feel like I’m sassy and raunchy but empathetic and loving, so I feel like I’m just reading the room, because what’s not far enough for me could be too far for somebody [else]. There is a cap at some point where you just feel it. But some people don’t read the room! It’s all about themselves. I’ve realised on sets that if people can’t improv, their jokes get violent.
Not to take it back to this administration, but the overarching theme is that we never actually think about how people feel unless they look like us. I urge all my friends that don’t look like me to think about what it’s like in my shoes. Oh, I never thought about that, Michelle. Well, you never had to! But I’ve had to think about what it’s like to be you and try to conform to that space so I don’t rock the boat and become the 'troublesome' one. I had already done that by the time I was in third grade. I already knew how to do that when I was 8. But we’re in our 40s now and you still don’t get it. That’s why diversity matters. That’s why these stories matter. That’s why you’ve got to put us on everything, because we’re here. There’s a lot of us. So read the room!
I’ve noticed some thematic throughlines across your work. For instance, in A Buteau-ful Mind, you talk a lot about how your life has changed since becoming a mother. Last year, you starred in Babes, a film about becoming a mother. And in both seasons of SOTT, Mavis has contemplated motherhood in different ways. Do you find yourself exploring similar topics across different mediums as it coincides with your real life? And if SOTT gets renewed for another season, would you want to keep exploring that topic?
It’s so funny you say that. When I first sat down with my showrunner and co-creator, Danielle Sanchez-Witzel, she was like, 'What are the themes you want to explore?' Obviously, it was everything that we’ve done so far. But also, my husband and I had a very wild journey: We did IVF for five years and then we went down the road of surrogacy. And at that time, surrogacy was illegal in New York, so we had to go to Pennsylvania. It just felt like wanting a family but not being able to use your body [to make one] was a crime. It felt like the government was punishing me at every turn — and I already felt pretty low. So one of the themes I always wanted to get into was healthcare and all these alternative methods of family-planning.
When I told my co-creator, she kept saying, 'This is a comedy!' And I’d respond, 'I know, but you can definitely find comedy within pain. How do we do that?' So we touched on a little bit with episode seven in season one, tickled it a little bit in season two, and now hopefully we get three more seasons so I can properly tell the story I want to tell. Because eight episodes is not enough!
I agree! I think this show should run forever. It feels like the classic sitcoms of yore, which is why I’m so invested in the will-they-won’t-they dynamic between Mavis and Luca. The pair spend much of the season apart but reunite in the finale’s last moments, when he yells at someone trying to steal her taxi. It’s all so romantic! Do you see Luca and Mavis as each other’s 'OTP'? Will they always return to each other?
I don’t know! It’s so hard to get a season, let alone a season 2, so I don’t even know about a season 3. I would love a season three. I would kill, murder, viking funeral burn-the-boat for a season 3. But I’m such a TV nerd and just love a good fucking show, so I wanted to give Mavis and Luca a good ending. I wanted to give that to the audience, too, because they’ve been riding with us. When you make television now, you kind of just leave it on the field. You have to leave it open but also tie it up at the same time, and I feel like we’ve done it right.
But I don’t know [if they’ll always return to each other] because I don’t know what the future holds. I do believe that both of them are good together and are worthy of love, though, so who knows? Also, who’s taking a taxi these days? She couldn’t order an Uber?
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.
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Michael Cuby is the Editor-at-Large for them. His work has appeared in GQ, Vogue, L'Officiel, and VICE. He is a film and television fanatic who has thankfully been given the opportunity to turn that addiction into a job. When he isn't being productive, you can usually find him sitting in front of one of many screens.
